EIR TALKS

November 18, 1998

INTERVIEWER: Tony Papert

Guests: Jeff Steinberg, EIR Counterintelligence Editor Ed Spannaus, EIR Law Editor, Linda de Hoyos, EIR Africa Editor, and Richard Freeman, Economics Staff, EIR

TONY PAPERT: Welcome to "EIR Talks." This is Tony Papert. It's Wednesday, November 18th, 1998, and with me is {EIR} Counterintelligence editor Jeff Steinberg, and EIR Africa editor Linda de Hoyos...Let's now turn to Africa. Linda, who is Susan Rice? And is she British or American?

LINDA DE HOYOS: Oh, well, Susan Rice is an American by birth, but she was vetted through the Commonwealth apparatus in Britain, which is essentially the policy-making grouping for Africa policy in London.

She is today the Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs. She was appointed by President Clinton in May of 1997, and she's young and has very little experience in Africa. But she is in this post, and she is carrying out the policy which is desired by the British and by the Israelis both in Africa, particularly Eastern Africa.

TONY PAPERT: What is it?

LINDA DE HOYOS: Well, this is a policy which essentially attaches the United States military and diplomatic capabilities behind Uganda and President Yoweri Museveni. And Museveni was put into power by the British in 1986, or by, say, a British-sponsored and -supported guerrilla war. And he was put in power in 1986, and in 1990, he launched an invasion of Rwanda, with part of the Ugandan Army, which was really the beginnings of a policy of the destruction of the nation-states in that region.

Now, what has happened, is that the United States, for example in this latest crisis, has said publicly, and it is the official policy, that the United States supports the territorial integrity of the Democratic Republic of Congo, and wants the foreign troops to leave. Because right now, the troops that are in there, are from Chad, Angola, Zimbabwe, Namibia. 

Those troops were invited in by President Kabila of the Congo to defend the Congo against an invasion launched August 2nd, from Museveni's Uganda, and his sidekick, Kagame, of Rwanda. And the stated policy of the United States, is that all foreign troops must leave. Additionally, however, the U.S. ambassador to Congo, William Swing, said in October that the foreign troops who were not invited in, that is, Uganda and Rwanda, must leave. The invaders must leave.

Now, Susan Rice has been on a peace tour which says that all foreign troops must leave, which is a problem, because there's no reason really why they would be treated equally when one is defending the government and has been invited in, as per the statutes of the charter of the Organization of Africa Unity.

Now, what's happened, is that EIR investigators have uncovered operations which are extremely reminiscent of the covert supply of the Contras carried out during the Bush administration under George Bush, and involving the same cast of characters. The same seedy crowd, so to speak, or unsavory crowd.

And this involves Michael Harari, who was the Mossad station chief in South America and Central America during the 80s. He appears now to have moved over to Africa, and is now working with Roger Winter of the U.S. Committee of Refugees, Daniel Eiffe of the Norwegian People's Aid, which is an organization which has now been fired by the Norwegian government in its capacity of delivering aid to southern Sudan.

And these people are involved with Harari, and also Alberto P. Herraras, Harari's cousin, who has a Florida-based gun operation called Lomax International, and these people are supplying covert weapons to the Sudanese People's Liberation Army.

JEFF STEINBERG: Linda, isn't Harari now under murder indictment in Norway for running hit squads by the Israelis?

LINDA DE HOYOS: Yes. He directed hit squads in the 1970s against the -- targeting people that the Mossad had said were responsible for the Munich massacre. But in this case in Norway, the hit squad directed by Harari, killed a Moroccan waiter, who had absolutely nothing to do with this whatsoever.

And his indictment and warrant for his arrest, have been reissued now, by the Norwegian government. So, this whole grouping is involved in covert arms supplies.

The Sudanese People's Liberation Army, which has waged a 15-year unsuccessful -- completely unsuccessful -- war in Southern Sudan against the Sudanese government, which has resulted really in the deaths of probably a million and a half people, which is a large portion of the population of Southern Sudan.

Now, what's interesting, is that Roger Winter, it is known, was the chief lobbyist in Washington from his base of the U.S. Committee for Refugees -- which, by the way, does not deliver aid to refugees, but just watches them.  

He was the chief lobbyist for the appointment of Susan Rice to her current post as the assistant secretary of state for African affairs. And secondly, we are being told by well-placed sources, that Roger Winter is the only adviser that she basically listens to. It is known that she does not listen to the foreign service experts and people who have actually had great experience in Africa, within the State Department, because many of them believe that the policy that has been pushed of war against Sudan, and the complete support of this dictator, Yoweri Museveni, is a policy of failure, and is a policy which is not in the American interests, and which is getting the United states nowhere fast, and is also resulting in wider and wider conflagrations within Africa itself, which does not make Africa a very welcome prospect for American business or investment or any such thing, which is what the official policy of the United States of the American partnership with Africa presented by President Clinton, is all about.

Well, if the entire place is in flames, you can hardly have a partnership for investment and development. So, the policy which has been stated by President Clinton, is, in general terms, completely at odds with what is being pursued actively, every day, both diplomatically, but also covertly, in terms of arms supplies and other operations, by people who are around Susan Rice at least, which involves Roger Winter in particular.

Additionally, we have also learned of the State Department and Rice are somewhat interested in giving logistical help to the so-called rebels in the Congo, who are basically a cover for the Ugandan and Rwandan invasion. This is a separate operation, but it overlaps in personnel, and it involves these same Mossad operatives.

So, this is what we have uncovered, and this is being released this week throughout the world. And we think that Susan Rice has to be held accountable. Mr. LaRouche has called for her immediate dismissal from the government. She has already done enough which would warrant that. And in fact, her lack of knowledge of Africa, is a scandal within the African diplomatic corps in Washington. They just cannot even figure out why in the world such a person who also by the way has been sponsored by Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. But they can't understand why such a person, who knows absolutely nothing, would be heading up Africa policy for a country such as the United States.

JEFF STEINBERG: She's known as "Meddling Albright" these days.

LINDA DE HOYOS: Right. So I think that if any policy is going to be pursued toward peace, then the obvious situation must be, that the Ugandan and Rwandan troops must get out. But right now, there are all kinds of things coming to light about how the Ugandan Army, headed up in the Congo, for example, by Museveni's nephew, James Kazini, who's the chief of staff of the Ugandan armed forces, that they are taking out gold and diamonds from the Congo. And also, in the Southern Sudan, the SPLA, which they ostensibly support, is also saying that the Ugandan army is going in and taking out timber and gold from Southern Sudan.

So, in a certain sense, this money -- it's like the booty pays for the war. As you get the booty, then that pays for your continuing war effort. And it's a Thirty Years' War scenario. And if this is going to be stopped, then it will require absolutely the dismissal of Susan Rice, as an assistant secretary of state for African affairs, and her replacement by someone who represents an American policy which is peace, which is the inviolability of the borders, and is the beginnings of the development in Africa, whose infrastructure deficit is beyond belief today. And that is what is going to be immediately required.

TONY PAPERT: Terrific. Thank you very much. You've been listening to "EIR Talks."